Yes I am, I’ve just made that post so that people can find my answers and opinions more easily on the side bar :)
Ah Henry Tudor, how much I’ve poked fun of him because i’m a ragin’ Richardian. Actually my opinion of the historical figure aside, I liked Henry in the Show. He wasn’t really in the books all that much up until the white princess. But in the show he had lovers, he was brave on the battlefield, he loved his absent crazy mother, he was handsome. He wasn’t around much and what we did see what was there not to love?
However since Stars is interested in filming the White Princess, I have concerns. While I don’t think highly of the real Henry VII (because let’s face it he had many faults) even I felt insulted for him in The White Princess. For those of you who didn’t read it, Henry isn’t pleased about marrying Elizabeth of York so he repeatedly rapes her until she falls pregnant before marrying her to ensure that at the very least she’s fertile. And because she’s a whore who’s used to being treated like that. Henry is made into a complete dick because PG wants Elizabeth to pine her beloved uncle lover and their perfect love. Henry VII was a bit of an asshole in history and granted wouldn’t be anyone woman’s idea man but in the book he’s just awful.
He is a mummy’s boy, he doesn’t fight in battles, he is sneaky and underhanded, he’s paranoid, he’s un-romance and rude, He’s childish at any triumph he has, he’s pitiful because he desperately tries to imatation previous monarchs, he’s not charming, he’s a loser that trails after women. He does this first with Lady Katherine in The white Princess and than Katherine of Aragon in the Constant Princess. Although his creeping of KOA is hilarious. He makes huge amounts of effort with women except Elizabeth.
So the relationship between Elizabeth and Henry strangely is Ok. so it’s not the happy marriage they reportedly had in history, but they make it work. Henry is horrible, cheats on her and kills and imprisons all of her family yet she still tries to stay supportive. She tries not to complain and tries to be the best wife she can be. In a time when few marriages were love marriages and the point of marriage was to have kids, Henry and Elizabeth were successful in that respect. It’s not written as a romance so much as an agreement, so I don’t mind their relationship in the book too much.
So if they make the The white Princess into a show I think they are going to run into difficulties. Particularly because their leading man is written as such an unlikable person who doesn’t really have any chemistry with his wife. Hardly entertaining Tv…
For Submitter, Sorry I can’t get images for the actual sex scene at all!
Two characters that are completely at polar opposites in terms of fan popularity. Interesting selection! so first off;
When PG started her Cousin’s War series of books I was desperately hoping for a book on Anne Neville. Richard III was my favorite king and I I had a highly romanticized view of his marriage to Anne. So I like Anne Neville as a historical figure as result of that.
I was surprised at how PG portrayed Anne in the books and on the show because it’s radically different to how she’s been seen throughout history. And I loved it. PG turned Anne from a damsel in distress to active participant in the events of the Wars of the roses. This is more evident in the book, as it’s from Anne’s perspective, but still comes through in later episodes of the show when Anne is advising (or even bullying) her husband about what he should or shouldn’t do. I also love her ambition for the crown and in general. It makes the relationship she had with her father more important because it shows what she has learned from Warwick who was one of the key players of the wars of the roses.
The Anne in the show, I find, is a kind and good person who is very sympathetic and likable. Even in the last episode where she is heartbroken and bitter, you can’t really dislike her. In fact I can’t fault any of her actions because they all seem like the actions of any real person. So In short, I like Anne as a character. I just wish that there was more than one season or the season was longer so that she could have been expanded a bit more like she is in the book.
Unpopular opinion time: I don’t think Jane Shore is a whore.
Since she isn’t in the show all that much, my opinion has more to do with the book and the historical figure and in general my opinion on royal mistresses. Also I don’t think highly of promiscuity but I think the level of hate heaped on Jane is excessive. So my opinion on the characters is as much a retort in the slut shaming as much as it is talking about the character.
History: Jane shore was a merchant’s wife and notable London beauty who was being courted by William Hastings (absence from the show but effectively Edward’s BFF in history). In 1476 Jane had her marriage annulled and was introduced by Hastings to Edward after his return from France. She quickly become one of three of his favorite mistresses. Jane and Edward’s affair lasted seven years and towards the end it was more about companionship than sex. Jane was often mentioned to be kind, sweet and witty and never used her influence over Edward for personal gain. Instead she used to to bring those who were out of favor pardons from the king.
Since Edward was married, Jane took two other lovers. William Hastings, whom she had flirtations with for many years and Thomas Grey (who was replaced by Anthony Woodville in the show).
Whore Status: Do I think she was a slut? no. Edward was king and if a king showed an interest it would be unforgivably rude not to comply. Many women have become royal mistresses and in most cases, the mistress had more power and status than the queen did. Many people applaud Anne Boleyn even though she was a mistress who broke up a royal marriage and a country’s religion and yet they scorn Jane shore for having sex with a married man and seeking no advancement. Comparison to other mistresses and considering the power of the crown and the social manners of the time must come into it when people judge Jane.
Also who’s to say that Edward and Jane didn’t really love each other? just because Edward passionately loved Elizabeth doesn’t mean he didn’t equally love Jane. They were both equally beautiful and charming. They could have been madly in love and knew that they could never be together because Edward couldn’t leave Elizabeth. Edward was recorded to be completely devoted to Jane. so maybe it wasn’t a sordid seedy affair, maybe they did really love each other but circumstance meant that it could only ever be an adulterous affair. So they sinned because they couldn’t be without each other. A different perceptive might explain Jane’s motives rather than just seeing her as a whore.
Also her affairs with two other gentlemen at the same time. As much as she loved Edward, she knew she could never have him. Even if he was single, he wouldn’t have married her. So she comforted herself with other lovers who (if anything happened to their wives) might marry her. Hastings had courted her for years so there was an obvious attraction there and Thomas grey was one of the handsome Woodvilles. Men loved Jane and she relished in the attention and their company. Also what had she to lose? She was unmarried, she was already considered a harlot so why not enjoy herself and have relationships? tbh three men in seven years is quite modest by today’s standards! also with Grey and Hastings and all other male courtiers, most of their wives were running households around the country and not at court and their marriages were not love matches. So Jane wasn’t flaunting husband’s infidelities in the loving wives faces. Jane made the best of her situation and no one can vault her for that even if her reputation suffered for it.
So in the show we only see her before, during or after sex so I can’t comment on a character because she hasn’t got any.
In the book, Elizabeth actually comes to like Jane. When Jane brings her messages and food in sanctuary, Elizabeth begins to see why Edward liked her as much as he did. So Jane is portrayed as a nice enough person.
in conclusion: Like many of the characters on the show, we can’t judge them by wholly by today’s standards. I personally like Jane Shore from history, she didn’t do anything I think was that wrong and don’t think she deserves the criticism she gets.